made in china

[ar15ed]

i have been self-employed since 2000, and the big crash of late 08-09 was fairly painful for me. lots of my work was for realtors and small contractors, and they took a monstrous hit. several of my best clients just disappeared. i really had to tighten up, and i started really paying attention to what i spent on EVERYTHING. since that time, i have been fairly adamant about trying to buy american, whenever it's even remotely possible.

i have had good luck finding work clothes. i even found a carhartt winter coat that was made in the u.s. we got a nice living room suite made here in western north carolina, and just last week found a really nice mattress set made right here in asheville. i searched a little and found a u.s. tow strap when i needed a new one. i have an american made motorcycle (buell/wisconsin), and a ford truck made in virginia. some stuff is tough, but i have really put in the time to try to find u.s. stuff every time i need something. i dad-gum sure have american made knives!!!

i live in western north carolina, and several of our counties have been decimated by the closing of a number of large textile plants. we have also lost a very large boat-making company, and several paper-making plants are teetering on the edge. we lost a very large volvo heavy-equipment plant, and several plants associated with the automobile industry. all this stuff is just GONE. the buildings are sitting empty on acres and acres of overgrown grass, and decaying parking lots. some of our counties have over 20% unemloyment (one has 28%!).

which brings me to the reason for this thread! i don't guess i "shop" with my wife very much, but she went to home depot with me tonight, and she wanted to stop by a clothing store named "hamrick's". she was trying on shoes, and we were probably in there for 30 or 40 minutes. i basically searched for "made in the u.s.a." the whole time i was in there. good grief! it was honestly frightening to me! 99% of the stuff in there was made in china. i am talking about everything: shoes, clothes, reading glasses, sunglasses, purses, pots, pans, belts, jewelry, ornamental doodads, cooking stuff, every stinkin' thing! they even had what i would have considered "old school" american names like nunn-bush shoes, and clark shoes, and every pair was made in china.

they had some levi's jeans made in egypt, and a few articles of clothing were made in bangladesh or vietnam. they had some lee jeans that said: "made in mexico of american material", and they had some new balance shoes (one single style!) that said: "made in the u.s. of foreign materials".

everything else was made in china. does this bother any of you folks? i realize that the dalton forum is probably a little skewed from the average joe on the street, since dalton is a genuine american (good ole' kentucky!) business. i really am having a hard time trying to figure out how we are gonna make it, if we buy everything we own from china. i honestly don't have anything against the chinese people, or anybody else, but it seems to me like we, as americans, need to produce SOMETHING! i feel like the whole "business" of america is quickly becoming some form of "gambling"; insurance, stocks/bonds, financial planning, etc., and the rest appears to be gov't employees, medical, and service stuff (i guess that's me!).

i apologize for ranting. well, i'm really not ranting. i am just finding it a little overwhelming. how in the world did we get to this point so quickly? is everything gonna be okay of we don't actually produce anything, and we keep sending gigantic quantities of money to china? is it better to pay 3 dollars for a t-shirt, and have 15% of our people on unemployment, or pay 6 dollars for a t-shirt, and have 4% of our people on unemployment? is it even possible for us to go back to building anything?

what are your thoughts? help!

[Honch0]

You ask some great economic questions relative to the future of the US as a service versus manufacturing economy. To try and answer this question we need to look at how we got to where we are today, a country that imports more than we export to the tune of 40 to 50 billion dollars annually.

After WWII until the 1960's the US led the world in GDP and trade balance was positive not negative, our exports where heavy equip, cars, planes, weapons and technology. Between then and now things have dramatically changed. Many blame our high labor cost, lack of skilled workers, currency manipulation by the Chinese and Japan to keep there imports cheap, corporate greed to outsource offshore manufacturing, poor regulation on a Federal level, the list goes on and on.

Our economic problems are deep seated and likely a compilation of all of the above to one degree or another, PHDs in economics can't all agree, so I certainly can't answer this question definitively.

What I do know, is there is an economic model we can follow, that results in a positive trade balance, a robust GDP and well paid factory workers and well compensated stock holders. Build a high quality product, the best in class, provide great customer service, train and retain your work force in good times and bad. What country does this today? The answer, Germany. Germany has 10 billion dollar trade surplus and their GDP is five times less than ours.

The Stihl chainsaw manufacturer is a great example. Their products are exported worldwide. They cost up to twice as much as their competitors products, yet they lead their industry in sales and profits. About 86% of the chainsaw's parts are made in Germany, 100% of it is assembled in Germany. They don't layoff their employees when sales decline, they cut back on production and pay them. When the sales pickup, they are positioned to meet demand with a fully trained and skilled workforce. BMWs, Mercedes Benzs all sell in good and bad times. Build it right and you can get paid a premium price. Seems too simple, but this model does work.

How is it that we lost the ability to rule a market like that. There was a time when GM did it, now they need a bailout form the taxpayers. Many blame the unions, easy target, not true. Management controls everything the unions get. Germany has stronger unions and Federal Regulations to protect the workforce than we do.

We got fat, greedy and lazy. Simple as that. Everything runs in cycles. The US just got a big economic wake-up call, and so did the rest of the world. Let's see if we are up to the task as a nation. First thing we need to get done is send a message to congress, your job is to govern, not to spend all of you effort to try and make the other guy look bad. Next, we all need to look in the mirror as a people, what you see is either the solution or the problem.

The next five years will tell a lot about our future, it's make it or break it time...Al

[corjzg]

most people dont know or care, theyre too preoccupied with the "latest & greatest" gadget/shoe/etc

everything is made in china. somethings are almost impossible to find from a domestic supplier (electronics for ex). china could devalue our currency in a brush stroke. our fed reserve is a sham. what is the solution? smart decisions in the voting booth, recycling, conscious consumer purchasing? IDFK
i know 100+ yrs ago people made their own way without the supermarkets and fast food joints on every corner, family values were stronger, and we werent a nation a fat lazy slobs whose main export is debt. just watch one of those shows where people try to fend for themselves in alaska or wherever. most people are half dead in a week. if this house of cards that is our economy suddenly comes crashing down, and we're on our own to survive, i wish us the best of luck. and maybe it will take something like that, something that forces us back to simpler times, in order to become a self-sustaining nation again, idk.

i gotta go. have to go put some asian coffeee into my chinese grinder, then brew up some jo in my chinese coffeepot so i can drink it from my chinese mug. godspeed America, i love and would die for ya, but truth be told: you need a fucking intervention.
MITUSA

[daltonsonly]

Great post....I look at the country of origin on everything I buy, it sucks how little is made in the US:

Shoes - New Balance (some)
Boots - Alden, Russell Moccassin, Quoddy, Red Wing (some)
Jeans - Earnest Sewn, 7for all mankind, lots of jeans are made in the US, but expensive like most US made items
Stereo Equipment - Audio Research, McInstosh, Krell
Sleeping Bag - Western Moutaineering
Bikes - Only custom, Cannondale and Trek use to be proud about building bikes here, now they don't unless it's something crazy high end
Baseball Gloves - I can't believe this, even Rawlings high end gloves are not made here. Nokona still has american made gloves
Fishing Rods - g loomis, St Croix, Falcon

Most of these companies have different lines that are not all made in the US, those were some I've supported.

Knives - DALTONS - ALL MADE IN THE USA

I don't have a problem buying other countries from a quality standpoint (Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Japan, Canada), but more importantly I buy American for both quality and to support jobs in this rough ass economy.

kk

[robcelani]

Great discussion guys and I'd like to add my view.

It's been brought up in previous posts but I really think we need to change our consumption habits individually and as a country. How much stuff do we need? How many pairs of shoes, pants, tv's, toys or whatever do we need? Even when we need something there are options. I've bought jeans from goodwill many times and they always have plenty of pairs in nice shape. They might have been made in china but the cash I'm spending on them is no longer supporting that factory in china.

There are examples of successful American companies that still manufactor their products here. Harley davidson is one. There are other large motorcycles produced but when I think of a big bike Harley is the top of the line.

It's interesting to me that I can walk into walmart (or really most retail stores) and none of that stuff is made here. We have no problem throwing down cash for more of the same stuff we have our homes full of. Yet we all know when we walk into a knife store if it's full of blades made outside the US (some exceptions of course) it's probably not worth our time.

I try and keep an optimistic view of Americas economic future. Our trade imbalance is one area where that is difficult. Our discussion and awareness helps in a small way by making us conscious of how our individual choices can help.

[Honch0]

Knives - DALTONS - ALL MADE IN THE USA

kk

Actually, Dalton uses ATS 34 Steel, made in Japan by Hitachi

As per http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.htmlATS-34 - 154-CM The hottest high-end stainless right now. 154-CM is the original American version, but for a long time was not manufactured to the high quality standards knifemakers expect, and so is not used often anymore. Late-breaking news is that high-quality 154-CM may again be available. ATS-34 is a Hitachi product that is very, very similar to 154-CM, and is the premier high quality stainless. Normally hardened to around 60 Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that high hardness. Not quite as rust resistant as the 400 series above. Many custom makers use ATS-34, and Spyderco (in their high-end knives) and Benchmade are among the production companies that use it.

Sometimes you just have to buy the best, regardless of where it's made...Al

[daltonsonly]

[QUOTE=Honch0;10403]Actually, Dalton uses ATS 34 Steel, made in Japan by Hitachi

Thanks Honch0 - Most items made in the USA contain some foreign material, but not enough to merit credit, when it comes to country of origin. I should of been clearer, I meant Each knife is made in the USA, not exactly All components of the knife - Although I had no idea his steel was Japan.

As for consumption habits, I couldn't agree more, how many of one thing do you need? Well obviously, we all need a lot of DALTONS! I have shoes and boots that will get resoled (probably every 5 years) - I got tired of continually buying $100 shoes and boots, then not being very comfortable and wearing them out in a year (I know, I put more value on how my feet feel than most). I have 3 pair of jeans I wear, which is one too many. These will get repaired from a seamstress when needed.

Here are the best all around boot money can buy in my opinion. They are now known as the Indy Boot, because it's the choice of boot for Harrison Ford in Indiana Jones, they have been making this boot for decades. It's very solid, comfortable and will last the rest of your life (with some re-soles)...and the last baseball glove I will ever buy.

kk

[robcelani]

Great posts in this thread! Thanks Ed for bringing it up! It made me stop and think about where we are and where we are heading?

Come on Dalton Forums let's here what u think?:)MITUSA

[ar15ed]

alright, it is a tiny nugget, but last night wal-mart had hanes socks, MADE IN THE U.S.!

after you get in the habit of checking, it is actually pretty interesting to try and find u.s.-produced stuff. i think the most efficient thing is to check lots of stuff, all the time. then when you need something, you have an idea where you might can find/buy american.

man, the scariest thing is lowe's/home depot, etc. you would not believe the amount of chinese crap in them.

i honestly think we are gonna have to get serious about BUYING AMERICAN!!!!

[Honch0]

I agree with the buy America, however we need to make top quality stuff if this is going to work. You can sell at a premium, if what you produce is the best in class. Otherwise, you buy substandard, and pay top dollar. Make it good, and it well sell...Al

[metropolitan6C]

The wrong place for an european to speak, but cheap-products/cheap-prices apart, i've never understood the fashion in USA, first market in value if no longer in volume, for glock, sig, bmw, mercedes when you have such names as colt, S&W, Cadillac, lincoln, dodge or chevrolet. . . From this side of atlantic, same problem shamelessly denied by our politics and 'economist' (like if economy could be a real science, as physics ;) and complicated by the european market (they say what they want, thinking of the future of my kids, i prefer 22% of unemployment in Berlin than in Paris where i live)

[metropolitan6C]

.... And nothing beats, after a hard-day of work, a us postal service package with a Dalton knife inside, paid in dollars with my euros, in my letter box. ;) laugh3

[robcelani]

BTT

Lets hear from some new guys.

Or Moficky at least.:)